Sex Work: Beyond the Stigma (w/ Annie Temple)

Ever wonder what life's really like in the sex industry? This episode dives deep with Annie Temple, a total badass who's been rocking the world of sex work for 25 years (entrepreneur, mom, author – she does it all!). Forget cheesy movies – Annie spills the tea on the industry's diversity and hustle, from dancing to coaching.

Dating life for a sex worker? We got you.  We explore the real challenges of balancing relationships with this career, and how it redefines what "ownership" means in love. Spoiler alert: respect is key (just like anywhere else!).

Safety first, always. Annie shares her hard-earned tips for staying safe and navigating the emotional rollercoaster of stigma. From discretion to self-defense, we've got you covered.

Ready to break the mold on sex work? This episode is a wake-up call for empathy and understanding. We'll leave you wanting more, plus we'll show you how to connect with Annie and keep learning about this important movement.

This episode is brought to you by Premier Ridge Capital.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:28

Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Wealthy AF, and today we're going to be talking about a special, very interesting topic, and that's understanding the sex industry. And today's guest to have this discussion with me is Annie Temple. And Annie is an erotic entrepreneur, mother and the number one bestselling author of Annie's Temple Business Bible for Erotic Entrepreneurs. Annie's journey of hope and healing has inspired her to share her story of empowerment, challenging societal norms about sex workers and the people who love them, as well as other common beliefs that affect people negatively. With a focus on personal growth relationships, entrepreneurship, Annie brings a unique perspective to the podcasting world. Annie, welcome to the podcast. I really appreciate you being here.

Speaker 2: 1:18

Thank you very much for having me.

Speaker 1: 1:20

So, annie, let's start with tell us your story. How did you wind up in the sex industry? What is the sex industry? What does that mean? I mean, you know I got so many questions for you I don't even know to start.

Speaker 2: 1:36

Well the sex industry is really. It depends on who you ask. There are a lot of people who work in the sex industry, or some people prefer to call it the adult entertainment industry, but don't like to refer to themselves as sex industry workers or sex workers, even though other people who maybe aren't in the industry or even are in the industry, would consider them to be sex workers. So it's a bit of a contentious issue and I can go into that a little more after. I tell you a bit about me. But I was raised kind of poor in a smaller town and when I was 22 years old I moved to the big city and I struggled. I really struggled financially. I was working in a retail job for minimum wage which was $7 an hour at the time. This was 1996.

Speaker 1: 2:28

And I what city was this? What big city was this?

Speaker 2: 2:30

Vancouver, BC, Canada.

Speaker 1: 2:32

Vancouver okay, been there, beautiful city.

Speaker 2: 2:34

Yeah, it is beautiful, so yeah. So I moved out of my smaller town and moved to the big city and I couldn't make ends meet. I had to actually steal some of my groceries because I couldn't feed myself and I was feeling quite desperate, trying to find more jobs or a different job, but not getting hired. And that's when a friend of mine came to town and at that time she was an exotic dancer and she suggested to me well, why don't you try exotic dancing, even just one day a week, on Sundays? You could make over $100 that day once a week, and an extra $100 a week was a lot of money to me at that time. So I considered it and after a few weeks of considering it I made the decision, without telling anyone, and I owned up an agency that was on this list of numbers that my friend had given me.

Speaker 2: 3:24

And that night I started working at a strip club called the Marble Arch and I started by doing VIP dancing, which isn't like those different kinds of exotic dance. On stage are the people who usually are feature dancers they get paid for their stage shows and then the people who are walking around in the club and providing private show dances or VIP dances, and some do both and some only do the other. But at that time, because I didn't have any costumes, I couldn't start working on stage. So I started out by VIP dancing and charging $15 a dance to dance for one song for customers in the club. And in my first night of dancing I made more money than I did in two weeks at my retail job. So I was just so happy and so relieved and the next day I quit my regular retail job and went into stripping full time at that time. So for me it was just amazing, wonderful opportunity to be able to financially support myself and not struggle anymore.

Speaker 2: 4:34

That was how I got into the sex industry, stayed in it, in and out of it for over 25 years, and I think a large part of the reason for that is because it was always there for me, no matter what. I could go back and make money when I needed to, obviously took time off when I was pregnant, went to school. I had a whole bunch of different square jobs, like I was a marketing manager for motorcycle dealership and for non-profitization. So I've done a lot of stuff. I've had three children. I'm a mother of three. So yeah, and then on top of that I've been through a lot of health issues that kind of interrupted my path along the way. Now I'm 50 years old and I am still a part of the adult entertainment industry, still working in that industry but moving into a new field now of coaching and writing books and coaching people who want to change their lives Mostly writers, people who want to like finish their books and become self-published, that kind of thing.

Speaker 1: 5:38

Awesome, so tell me how your role has evolved as a what do you call it? An erotic entrepreneur? Right? Is that a sophisticated word for a stripper? Erotic entrepreneur.

Speaker 2: 5:53

I consider it a sophisticated word for sex worker, and it would be anyone that really works in the sex industry, so one who uses their sexuality to earn a living. That's how I would. People who are not a people don't see sex work as a real job or as a real business, and they look at it as something completely separate. So for me, the term erotic entrepreneur denotes that we use sensuality, but we really are entrepreneurs.

Speaker 1: 6:23

So how has your role changed in the industry as you've gotten older? Competing you have three children, I have a wife, four kids. Competing with younger women, tighter bodies. You know just nature right, Just better looking, because naturally they're younger.

Speaker 2: 6:44

The most fascinating thing about the adult entertainment industry is it's not like your mainstream entertainment industry Stripping yes, you can't really do stripping into your older years unless you still look extremely young, which some thought. There are exotic dancers my age who look way younger than I do and they're still making a great living at dancing. But for the most part we age out of dancing, that's for sure. But for most other areas of the adult entertainment industry age, body size, color, everything else there's a client for everyone. There's a market for every single person. So I went from working as an exotic dancer, I did some nude modeling. I worked as a stripping waitress, where I would get on stage and get naked for a song and then go out and serve beers.

Speaker 2: 7:36

I well, how else? Oh, as I got older and I went through some health issues and I ended up having major surgery and had a lot of scars. So I couldn't go back to exotic dancing anymore because that was kind of my fallback in between babies or in between jobs, or even just as a side gig I could just go to the club and hustle VIP dances. And yeah, there's a lot of women that are younger and more beautiful than me, but they don't hustle like I do, or maybe they do, but definitely I've got the hustle.

Speaker 2: 8:10

But when I went through those surgeries and those health issues my body was really disfigured, especially my stomach, very deep noticeable scars, and I didn't feel comfortable working in the strip clubs anymore because there is a standard of beauty expected that is more along the mainstream. So at that point I started doing massages in the strip clubs. So I would just give guys neck rubs while they watched the dancers and I hustled and I made good money doing that. But I don't know if it's happened where you live, but around where I live the strip clubs have been closing down at a pretty rapid rate over the last 20 years since I started.

Speaker 1: 8:53

Why are they closing?

Speaker 2: 8:55

I think part of it is society. Society is changing. It's becoming less tolerant of the sex industry. I feel like there's this idea that everyone who works in the sex industry is exploited and nobody wants to be seen as exploiting us. So a lot of people, just out of guilt or shame or fear for those reasons, won't come out and support the strip clubs, whereas when I first started dancing at the age of 23, construction workers came in on their lunch break and stock brokers brought their clients from every country into the strip club and entertained clients there. It was a lot more acceptable in our society In the 90s yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2: 9:44

Yeah, so I think that's part of it. Just public perspective and I feel a lot of that is just because of a lot of really loud negative voices that get a lot of attention in our society, unfortunately.

Speaker 1: 9:56

What are some of the negative implications or let me reframe that what are some of the difficulties that sex workers have when engaging in romantic relationships, especially for females?

Speaker 2: 10:11

So when I was a young dancer, a big, huge theme that me and most of my colleagues went through was having boyfriends who would become really jealous about our work. We used to have the pay phones in the change room and they'd be ringing off the hook, with boyfriends getting mad and we're like it's so funny and there's a lot of sex workers. If you ask them, they would say that it's difficult, if not impossible, to find a healthy and have a healthy relationship in this industry because people are so insecure and uncomfortable.

Speaker 1: 10:48

Do you think that's fair, though? Do you think that's insecurity? Do you think that I mean as a man, right to think that, hey man, my woman is going to be lap dancing and other dudes 20 dudes, 30 dudes in a night that I'm just telling you as a dude, right, hey man, that's a tough pill to swallow. It takes a special kind of guy to be able to navigate that right and to be able to be okay with that. Like, have you ever felt, as a sex worker, like, hey, this doesn't feel right to you. Have you ever had that?

Speaker 2: 11:23

I think that when someone struggles with that, it is because they're internalizing the oppression of our society. Our society tells us that sex is beautiful, sacred, amazing, wonderful if it's done with one person that you love, and that it's disgusting if someone pays for it. And it makes no sense because then you're saying that all of these people who are not accessing intimacy, not getting sensual or intimate services aren't deserving of it and they're disgusting if they have to or they want to pay for it. To me it doesn't make sense. And to your earlier comment about being a guy and knowing that your girls doing lap dances for other men, I think a lot of that comes from this idea in our society that we own our partners and so it's like someone's in violating our property.

Speaker 1: 12:23

That's a perspective. That's a perspective.

Speaker 2: 12:27

I've been able to kind of decondition that belief in myself and I fortunately met a partner that doesn't feel that way as well. He doesn't feel like he has that power, that control or even want that over me. He just wants me to be happy and since working in the adult entertainment industry makes me happy and it's something that I can do and still make a really decent living as someone who is disabled and as someone who is a mother, the fact that I'm not like breaking my back for 40 hours a week at a job that's way more draining and difficult and life-sucking and he's me shit money compared to what I get paid as an adult entertainer. You know he just wants me to be happy and he doesn't view it as sharing or someone moving in on his property or his well, you know, you know you view it, you view it as so.

Speaker 1: 13:26

That's a perspective, right, property. However, there's the other side to that right and the other side to that is a relationship is sacred, right, like a sacred thing, and there's a belief of that too, like there's that, also that school right, and and there should be mutual respect for both beliefs and that's fine.

Speaker 2: 13:43

Person isn't comfortable with their partner being a sex worker, then they shouldn't be, they shouldn't be, they shouldn't be exactly agreed sex workers are the only people who struggle with finding Partners that aren't jealous, though I think that jealousy is like an epidemic that we have in our society and that Especially jealous people they would it. They would go even further than getting upset over your partner doing a laugh death. They would get upset because partner smile that some because your text someone or something.

Speaker 2: 14:14

Yeah, yeah, I agree there because you like to picture on social media or something and then I think people need to understand that the person who's working in the sex industry for us we're not having like this relationship with our client. That is a threat to our partners. It's really just like okay, so your nurse your say, your wife is a nurse, she goes into the hospital, she has to put catheters and she has to wipe people's asses, she has to do all these intimate things that our society says is acceptable. It's totally acceptable to do those things, but it's unacceptable to do any kind of intimate services if they're Sexual or intimacy based. So to me, there's the problem is that people are vilifying Sexuality, sensuality, intimacy.

Speaker 2: 15:03

Strict clubs are one thing. You know. They're a party atmosphere. It's more of, I think, like it's an alcohol Infused party thing, you know, and and people have to be kind of in that, that lifestyle and that frame of mind, or Maybe it's just the only time they do it is for a stag or whatever, right, so it's. It's different. I think, then, a lot of the other kinds of services that are provided in the sex industry, because I think, for the most part, especially intimacy services and Online services and that kind of thing, the majority of clients are just people who are looking for some kind of connection or they're looking to meet some kind of need that's missing in their life, and sometimes it's not a healthy need or it's not a healthy client, but the majority of the time they're just regular everyday people who are just seeking connection.

Speaker 1: 15:53

Tell us the weirdest story about a client either creepy or weird, okay. For a while I was, I was providing Massage services and every once in a while, like you said that the strip at the strip, public massaging.

Speaker 2: 16:09

I know that this would be central massage, though out of like a studio space and oil, and the client is completely Undressed. Sometimes I would get the odd guys that were into a foot fetish because I have really pretty feet, just saying. But so I once had this client who showed up and Normally I wouldn't work in the evenings but I was just finishing off work and this guy contacted me and I was like, oh, I'm here anyway, so sure, but I don't usually work in evenings because I don't like to work with clients who are inebriated. So most clients during the day there are people who can you are, you know, they're wide awake, they're sober, they're, you know, just left work or they have their own company or whatever.

Speaker 2: 16:59

And this guy, when he arrived, I realized he had been partying so I could tell he like on drugs or something. But he wasn't like creepy or, you know, sketchy or anything. He, she was very nice and friendly, so I decided to just go through with the booking and see how it went. And she had a foot better. So he wanted to massage my feet and that kind of thing. And so anyway, long story short, he was having trouble Because of the drugs and by the end of the appointment. He's lying on the floor Asking me to rub my feet on his face, like his face is.

Speaker 2: 17:36

Goodness so that is nothing for me. Thank you that anyone's ever asked me to do the word anyone's asked me to do, but it's the weirdest thing anyone's asked me to do that I agreed to do.

Speaker 1: 17:49

Got it, got it. What are the most common misconceptions people hold about the sex industry and how do they contrast with the reality that you've discovered as a sex worker?

Speaker 2: 18:02

I think one of the misconceptions is that we're all exploited but no one can consent to Doing this work, that by nature it's non consensual, and I think that that's that a lot of people believe.

Speaker 2: 18:18

That and you'll see it in Social media threads.

Speaker 2: 18:21

People will say these women it's not their fault, or you know they're forced into it or they They've been abused so much they don't know any better, and that kind of thing. And then the reality is that the majority of the sex workers that I've met in my life are the most capable, competent, intelligent, driven, entrepreneurial, interesting people that you'll ever meet, and there's a Massive network of sex workers around the world that are all in connection with each other and we're all Activists for the rights of sex workers that the industry is so massive, so incredibly massive, and there are so many of us and we are. We are just any other entrepreneur. We have, you know, all those skills and desires that most entrepreneurs have. We just like to, we like to work for ourselves, we like to be in control of our work, we like to make good money, and we're not these exploited, degraded people that people Make us out to be. Now, if you, if you're talking about sex workers who are exploited or who have been exploited, and you're speaking about Trafficking, or that?

Speaker 1: 19:35

yeah, but there is, there is a verse, yeah.

Speaker 2: 19:38

Yes, there is absolutely just like there's, you know, labor trafficking for all kinds of different.

Speaker 1: 19:44

Have you encountered those girls? Have you in your, in your I don't know 20, 30 years in this business?

Speaker 2: 19:51

I mean, I don't really have a story to tell about that because I've never encountered them in the course of my work. I've only included them in my activism. And these are.

Speaker 2: 20:01

These are people that I met because they were sexually exploited youth and or may have been trafficked as youth and or adults in Canada, where the but they also became Consensual sex workers as adults really yes, and so they can offer a very, very specific viewpoint of how the current trafficking policies, for instance, aren't working, aren't helping, and how they're harming a lot of people who do work in, you know, adult consensual sex work. Like, for instance, one of the women that I've met. She said that when she was rescued by the police she was basically Abandoned immediately, given nowhere to go, given no supports, just missed, treated very poorly, like that. The whole experience was terrible. It didn't put her in a position where she would actually be able to take care of herself and leave the sex industry altogether, and which is part of the reason why she got back into it later. But she also like we're talking about consent, the ability to consent, the ability to choose who your customers are, the ability to design your business the way that you want to.

Speaker 2: 21:20

That's a completely different situation than having someone else say this is who you're going to see, this is when you're going to see them, this is how much you're going to work, this is where you're going to live, this is what you're going to do Like. It's a completely different situation. Another thing I really like to mention is that sex work is such an important industry to be available for people like me who have disabilities because we can't hold down a regular job and even running our own square businesses. It's a lot of work, it's a lot of energy and it takes a lot out of us, and when you're consistently dealing with hospitalizations or surgeries or periods of time when you're just too unwell to work, it's the kind of industry that enables you to save up the money and then get through the hard times, and so it's actually really amazing, wonderful industry for people who need it when they need it.

Speaker 1: 23:40

But when you say you're an activist, there's activism. What are you guys activating on from the sex industry?

Speaker 2: 23:48

I think the biggest thing globally that sex workers are fighting for is decriminalization, and there's a difference between decriminalizing and criminalization of what exactly?

Speaker 1: 24:01

Of having sexual, consensual sexual intercourse for an exchange of money, so what we call prostitution, illegally prostitution which was going to be around. My next question about that.

Speaker 2: 24:14

So decriminalization would just basically take away all of the laws around the sex industry that assume that we're all being trafficked and exploited. And we believe that that's fine to take those laws away because all of the laws that are already in place to help people who are kidnapped or controlled or forced or exploited there are so many laws to take care of all of that stuff. We don't need separate laws for sex industry workers or their clients. A big part of the reason why we want the laws gone is because, for instance, in Canada right now, they say it's legal to be a sex worker but it's illegal to be a sex buyer. So clients are criminalized here, but not the providers.

Speaker 2: 24:59

But yeah, but like, try to imagine, like if you're a real estate it makes no sense, like if you're trying to sell real estate but no one's allowed to buy real estate. You know what I mean. Like it makes no sense and it actually creates more harm. Because imagine, for instance, a client looks up an ad, shows up at a place to see a sex worker and notices that she has bruises or she seems like she's in distress, or maybe he catches sight of someone else that looks like they're being abused or exploited in some way. That client may really want to report this, but if he does, he will be outing himself for breaking the law and he could be, you know, he could lose his job, he could lose his marriage, he could lose everything just for trying to help this person that is actually being sexually exploited.

Speaker 2: 25:50

So by painting all clients with this brush of exploiter, pervert, etc. Etc. Which they are clearly not all of them, you know, I do feel like sex workers are a target for predators, but I believe that that's because of the stigma and I was also just going to quickly say a lot of people say legalized sex work, legalized sex work, but legalization would lead to a lot of regulation, and I feel like, yeah, sure, like some regulation is necessary, but I feel like that regulation should come from within our industries, and if they understood the capacity that sex workers had to totally run and manage our own industries without needing help from other organizations or the government, they would be amazed, because we're very organized.

Speaker 1: 26:38

In your ideal world as a sex worker. How would it look like? You know you're an activist with a sex worker community In your community. What is the ideal situation you're activating for?

Speaker 2: 26:54

So what that would look like is there are no laws criminalizing sex industry workers or clients, that the crimes that are committed in the sex industry would be handled under the current laws, that we already have to handle them, and I think that there would be interaction and communication between sex workers and government, sex workers and police sex workers and all of the organizations and agencies that have influence over us. What would be lovely is to heal this issue between police and sex workers, where sex workers are scared to call the police when they need help. You know, that's something that would be amazing to heal that. And then self regulation within our industry. I feel like it would be really cool and we almost have everything in place to do it to create a certification system to teach people how to manage their sex work businesses in an ethical is their certification?

Speaker 1: 27:52

now for it, we have everything ready to go.

Speaker 2: 27:55

We just we're just trying to come up with the funds to create the system. We even have buy in from our local police, but a large part of this is contingent upon our police forces not enforcing the current laws against clients, which in BC right now, we've done a pretty good job of convincing our police officers not to enforce those laws unless we make a complaint, and so that but and that came about because we had a lot of missing and murdered sex workers in BC and a lot of that was ignored by the police many years ago, and so the police have kind of been forced into having communication with sex workers and learning how to handle complaints and reports around sex worker.

Speaker 1: 28:45

So you say you do, you did coaching. You say you do coaching and consulting for, I guess, younger people coming into your industry. How are you coaching someone right? Because we see all of these documentaries right with the predator killing sex workers, or we see all these movies and these things that have happened in history with prostitutes and things like that and how they get taken advantage of and they get you know they disappear, like you mentioned ago. What are you? What is the standard for you guys? Like I'm just curious, is there some check box say this guy said this, this guy did this, this guy?

Speaker 2: 29:25

Everybody has to do what they're comfortable with. To me, my safety is number one, the most important thing, and so even any little indication that I won't be or might not be safe and I won't go through with it. It doesn't matter how much stress I'm under, how much financial pressure I'm under. I won't take clients if I feel even the the tiniest bit of a gut reaction to them. But most sex workers have a screening process in place and I actually have a whole chapter on it in my book Any tuffles business Bible for erotic entrepreneurs, because screening is really important. So some of the ways that we do it is we will put in our ad instructions on how to book with us, and so anyone who doesn't follow those instructions we ignore.

Speaker 1: 30:12

Give me an example of what those instructions look like. I'm just curious.

Speaker 2: 30:15

So contact me by text message, introduce yourself and tell me what day and time you're thinking of booking. That's simple. So yeah, that's simple.

Speaker 1: 30:25

So tell me. So tell me. I'm trying to connect the dots here. Someone doesn't follow that automatically make some dangerous, just like. Tell me that I'm trying to figure the connection. Is it hate someone? Someone text you? Now you have their phone number. What is it? What was it? Where's the connection of safety there?

Speaker 2: 30:43

So with that, that's for me that's about like getting the right kind of client a client that's thoughtful, a client that reads the whole ad, a client that has manners, that treats me with respect. So that's what that those boxes take off. Then I ask for photo, id or a face photo or something that will they have to give me so that I feel that safe enough to see them alone. So if they send me their face photo, knowing that I'll share that with one person who is, you know, we usually call it a kite string, someone here we check in with before we do our booking and we check out afterwards, and this is just for our first time or second time clients. Once we get to know our clients and we build regulars, then obviously we don't have to worry. We know which, you know, the ones we keep are safe, but yeah. So then we ask for other information. Some providers will have like a booking form, and so they'll get someone to fill up the whole form and ask them questions and they can identify by the answers how they feel.

Speaker 2: 31:42

Personally, I don't like guys that talk very vulgar towards me. I feel that it's disrespectful. I'm a classy woman, I want to be treated that way. So so that would screen them out for me If they just send a message, hey, or they just a lot of the guys are just trying to get free talk out of you. So you know that's another thing, like to screen out time wasters. So there's all kinds of ways to screen people out, and I mean I think that it's not just sex workers, but anyone who works in an environment where they're one on one alone with a client can be in danger and has to take these things into consideration, and you hear about it all the time.

Speaker 1: 32:18

Realtors being even real tears, yeah, even female girls, yeah.

Speaker 2: 32:22

I mean, it's just a fact of being a woman, I think, and being alone with people that could be potentially predatory, and so the best thing is to weed them out before you're even alone with them. But then, once you're alone with them, you have a safety plan in place and there's ways to make it as safe as possible as you can. You know, and obviously you can't you can't predict everything. But, like for me, I've never I've never been assaulted. I did in the district club.

Speaker 2: 32:52

That's not completely true. I did have a guy in the strip club touch me in private show booth when he was not supposed to touch me. But other than that I've never had anyone assault me, and part of that, I think, is because I am very good at screening. But each time I've ever had a client that during our first appointment I felt in any way like they were a little bit pushy or a little bit non respectful, I put it in notes and I made sure I never take them back again. So for me I get a very high caliber client because I'm very picky and I'm very specific, and then what I do is I make sure that those high caliber clients have the most amazing, luxurious, relaxing, wonderful experience that they could possibly have, so that they'll keep coming back. Now I have a roster of, you know, many safe, wonderful, respectful clients.

Speaker 1: 33:43

What are some of the emotional challenges sex workers typically face mental and emotional. What are some of the mental and emotional challenges?

Speaker 2: 33:53

Well, I think being judged, being stigmatized, worrying what our families will think of us when they find out what we do, that's a huge mental strain. Lying to people about our jobs.

Speaker 1: 34:07

What's the biggest lie like? How do you those that lie say what would they hate me? I mean that's lots of jobs that you do. You do right, like like. So drug dealers will say something like I'm an entrepreneur or whatever right. So what is the thing that you guys say?

Speaker 2: 34:22

I mean, when I was a stripper, I used to tell my parents that I was cleaning houses for a living, because that way they couldn't phone me at work or come see me at work. You know, you find different ways, like when you rent a place you can't tell your landlord, or you can't tell your bank, you can't tell people that you're a sex worker. So you have to say, oh, I'm a consultant, you know? Oh, what kind of consulting do you do? Entertainment consultant, or marketing consultant, or promotional consultant? I mean, some people say they're actors, which is really true, especially for dancers. You know, there's a lot of. It is a big act that you're putting on to create this fantasy for your clients. So yeah, it depends on who you are, what you say, you can, you can make up a lot of stuff.

Speaker 1: 35:07

How can we create a more respectful and understanding dialogue about sex work, right? So the one reasons I wanted to have you on the podcast is because you know I'm in the business world and you're in the business world and different, different world, right. But you know I don't even go to strip clubs. I haven't. I think I was in my 20s, early 20s, last time I went to a strip club. It's just not my thing, it's just, yeah, I've been married 20, two years now in a couple weeks here and it's just. My wife doesn't would not approve of it, but it's not my thing. It's not just, it's just not my thing. I wanted to get educated and I want my audience to get educated on what is a sex industry and how does it work and the mechanics of all of it all.

Speaker 2: 35:52

Yeah, I mean, this is one of the reasons why I am, you know, appearing on your show and I'm trying to get this message out to different, more mainstream audiences. Because sex workers, we could talk to each other and we're speaking to the choir but it's really the larger society that doesn't understand. And because there's so much shame and so much stigma around just sex never mind sex work and sex industry, these conversations, it is difficult for them to take place. So it takes, I think, brave people like you and me and people who are willing to have these conversations, willing to have them respectfully, because that's another problem. This is a contentious issue, so I could be facing someone who has very strong opinions about sex work and they might really oppose the whole industry and then this conversation could be really hostile. But I think that if they could have the respect for me that you have and have a respectful conversation like we're having, we could understand each other's perspectives a lot easier and come to better solutions for some of the problems like sexual exploitation and human trafficking and that kind of thing. And, honestly, when sex workers are left out of these conversations, you're leaving out the experts. So not specifically, but people are leaving out experts. So it's so important that people like you have people like me on your podcast and have these discussions, because I don't think that people really realize how big this industry is.

Speaker 2: 37:32

Because, yeah, there's career sex workers or people who stay in the industry for years, like I have, and or face out like I am, but we're very few and far between and the majority of people who work in this industry do it as a side gig. They don't tell anyone. They're people you know. They're your neighbors, they're your babysitter, they're the person that you buy your coffee from, they're your buddy's wife. There are so many people but they don't tell you because of the stigma. But you probably know several of them just in your life. That's how many of us there are and it's just like it's really sad that like one of my biggest fears as a mother was that if any of my children's friends, mothers or parents found out about my work in the adult entertainment industry, that my children would be able to hang out with their children or that there would be this trickle down effect of stigma where they would be concerned about their children being with my children.

Speaker 1: 38:30

I think that's very real. That's very real, honey. That's a legit concern.

Speaker 2: 38:36

I feel sad about that because motherhood is like my first job. It's my most important job. My children are my number one priority and sex work is what I do so that I can make my children my number one priority. It's just a job. It's not me as a mother. It has nothing to do with me as a mother.

Speaker 2: 38:57

What it does have to do with me as a mother is I've taught my children and brought my children up to be non-judgmental, tolerant, loving, caring, listening to people, challenge their own stereotypes, challenge their own ideas and stigma about other people in society, and my children are turning out to be really wonderful, amazing Children two of them are adults now were very close. They love me, they accept me. They never rejected me, even though I spent years worrying that they might. So it's all worked out really well and I feel like I did it I did well. You don't know until you're starting to come to the end of those childhood years whether you're a good parent or not, but I can say, because of the people that my children are as adults, that I've done a good job as a mother. So any of the parents that would be concerned about letting their children hang out with mine. Their concerns are. They're not. They don't have to worry about it. I'm a mom, just like any other mother 100%, 100%.

Speaker 1: 39:57

So you said a moment ago that some, you know, sometimes these conversations could go very, you know, left right. They could be left normal. I like to think I'm very open-minded and I like to hear all perspective and all points of views. Why did you choose to come on this podcast? How did you know that I wasn't going to go left on you? I do have conservative views. Naturally, I have more conservative views, but I respect people. How did you know that this wasn't going to go there?

Speaker 2: 40:28

Honestly, I was just willing to take the risk because I've gotten really good at managing my reaction to people. So let's say you did kind of go off on me, I'd be able to handle it. I would be able to handle it, and it's because I know that our views are coming from our different experiences. But you might be surprised to know that I have very conservative views as well. And there are conservative sex workers. We do exist. And it's frustrating for conservative sex workers that the conservative political figures out there don't listen to us, you know, because we deserve to have a voice. But there are conservatives out there. We exist. I mean, I'm more middle of the road than conservative because of this issue in particular, you know.

Speaker 1: 41:17

But I mean, I am more middle to a middle. I tend to lean middle right it's more, but I am middle. I am a registered, literally, and then the registered independent. So my final question for you, annie, is is there anything that you didn't share, that you should have shared, or that you should share that we didn't talk about? That would bring a tremendous amount of value to the audience and the listeners and myself.

Speaker 2: 41:47

I feel like my biggest dream is for people to question their own feelings and negative belief systems around sex and the sex industry and to open their minds to the idea that we really are just working at a job that many of us actually enjoy, with wonderful, beautiful human beings as clients, and that that is possible. It happens for most of us, and even though I think the majority of society is in denial about it. If they spent a couple hours in my stilettos, they would see that we're really exactly the same. We're all really exactly the same. We're just doing the best that we can with what we've got to get through and succeed in our lives.

Speaker 1: 42:40

I love that you said that that's something in the coaching world we use. We're all doing the best we can with the resources that we have. All of us are, especially when we think of it. It's one of one of the things we we use when we're thinking about our childhood traumas and our parents and a lot of us are like, oh, my mom did this and my parents, my dad, did this, and we all tend to forget like, hey, they did the best they could with the resources that they had at the time and it's just, it's just relieving, it's freeing when you actually just give yourself that freedom that, hey, people are doing the best they can with the resources that they have, especially our parents.

Speaker 1: 43:16

You know, allows us to let go of things. Annie, thank you so much for coming on. It really has been a pleasure to have this conversation, learned a lot from you. If people wanted to connect with you maybe wanted to get your book where did they find you? How do they follow you? And you're on social. How do people connect with you?

Speaker 2: 43:31

My website is annytemplecom. If you go to my link tree, which is connected to my website, I have all of my socials connected there. I mean different people are into different things. Like you know, twitter is kind of more of my adult entertainment personality, or as Facebook Instagram, I focus more on my coaching. Twitter is where my sex worker community is, so that's where we joke around a lot.

Speaker 1: 43:56

Annie, thank you so much for coming on sharing, educating me and educating the audience on on your experience and just the perspective and just the mindset around. You know, I really learned a lot just the mindset around the sex worker industry and how you view it, and you know you're a human being just like the rest of us. Yeah.

Speaker 2: 44:19

So thank you, You've loved it. Great, really good question.

Speaker 1: 44:23

Yeah, thank you for coming on, my dear.