Ever been totally betrayed by someone you trusted? Yeah, it sucks. Trust us, we've all been there. But guess what? You don't have to stay stuck in heartbreak.
Join us as we chat with Dr. Debi Silber, a total betrayal EXPERT, about turning that pain into serious growth. She'll break down the stages of healing (because let's face it, healing isn't always linear, amirite?) and how to ditch the victim mentality and embrace your inner badass.
We'll also hear real stories (including Dr. Silber's!) about relationships bouncing back from betrayal stronger than ever. Plus, we'll connect you with the PBT Institute's awesome resources to support your journey.
Ready to stop letting betrayal hold you back and build a life filled with trust? Hit play and let's level up together!
This episode is brought to you by Premier Ridge Capital.
Sign Up for our Newsletter and get our FREE E-Book where you'll learn everything you need to know about creating financial freedom through multifamily syndication.
Visit www.premierridgecapital.com now!
Introducing the 60 Day Deal Finder!
Visit: www.MartinREIMastery.com
Use the Coupon Code: WEALTHYAFfor 20% off!
This episode is brought to you by Premier Ridge Capital.
Build Generational Wealth As A Passive Investor In Multifamily Real Estate Syndication!
Visit www.premierridgecapital.com to find out more.
Ever been totally betrayed by someone you trusted? Yeah, it sucks. Trust us, we've all been there. But guess what? You don't have to stay stuck in heartbreak.
Join us as we chat with Dr. Debi Silber, a total betrayal EXPERT, about turning that pain into serious growth. She'll break down the stages of healing (because let's face it, healing isn't always linear, amirite?) and how to ditch the victim mentality and embrace your inner badass.
We'll also hear real stories (including Dr. Silber's!) about relationships bouncing back from betrayal stronger than ever. Plus, we'll connect you with the PBT Institute's awesome resources to support your journey.
Ready to stop letting betrayal hold you back and build a life filled with trust? Hit play and let's level up together!
This episode is brought to you by Premier Ridge Capital.
Sign Up for our Newsletter and get our FREE E-Book where you'll learn everything you need to know about creating financial freedom through multifamily syndication.
Visit www.premierridgecapital.com now!
Introducing the 60 Day Deal Finder!
Visit: www.MartinREIMastery.com
Use the Coupon Code: WEALTHYAFfor 20% off!
This episode is brought to you by Premier Ridge Capital.
Build Generational Wealth As A Passive Investor In Multifamily Real Estate Syndication!
Visit www.premierridgecapital.com to find out more.
Hey guys, welcome back to another episode of Wealthy AF, and today's topic is going to be betrayal and healing. And we have an expert on this topic today and I have Dr Debbie Silver, and Dr Debbie is the founder of PBT Post Betrayal Transformation she's going to talk about that, what that means, institute and is a holistic psychologist, a health, mindset and personal development expert, and is a two-time number one international bestselling author. She's also done two TEDx talks. In her recent PhD study on how we experience betrayal, she made three groundbreaking discoveries that change how long it takes to heal. Welcome, dr Debbie. Appreciate you being here and talking about this very, very important topic that we're going to talk about today.
Speaker 2:Thank you for our conversation.
Speaker 1:Outstanding, my dear, what is Post Betrayal Syndrome? Let's start there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that was the second out of the three discoveries made. And if you want me to back up a bit Sure, no one's saying betrayal unless you have to. I've been in business 32 years health, mindset, personal development and then I had a really painful betrayal from my family. Thought I did everything I needed to do to heal from that and then it happened again a few years later. This time it was my husband that was the deal breaker. Got a man out of the house, looked at the two experiences, thinking well, what similar to these two besides me, and realized boundaries were always getting crossed and ever took my own needs seriously. And I'm one of those people that believes nothing changes. Nothing changes.
Speaker 2:So here I was four kids, six dogs, a thriving business and I decided to go back for a PhD. I didn't know how I was going to pay for it, I didn't know how I was going to manage the time, but I used to look for books or something to get me out of a mess. There was no book on this, so I enrolled in this PhD program and then it was time to do a study. So I studied betrayal what holds us back, what helps us heal and what happens to us physically, mentally and emotionally when the people closest to us lie, cheat and deceive. That study led to three groundbreaking discoveries which changed my health, my family, my work, my life. So, to answer your question in a very long-winded way, post-betrayal syndrome was the second of that discovery. You want me to talk about it?
Speaker 1:Yeah, please do Tell us about it, sure.
Speaker 2:So what was discovered was there's this collection of symptoms physical, mental and emotional so common to betrayal. I named it post-betrayal syndrome. We've had over 95,000 plus people take our post-betrayal syndrome quiz on our site to see to what extent they're struggling A few things about that. We've all been taught time heals all wounds. I have the proof that when it comes to betrayal, that's not true. There's a question on the quiz that says is there anything else you'd like to share? People write things like my betrayal happened 35 years ago. I'm unwilling to trust. My betrayal happened 15 years ago. Feels like it happened yesterday. So we know you cannot count on time and you cannot count on a new relationship to heal it. Until and unless you deliberately and intentionally heal it, it will follow you around in your health, in your work, in your relationships, and every few months I pulled the stats from the quiz to see where people land. I'm happy to share some if you want to hear.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah absolutely yeah, got some questions on this?
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, yeah, and so this is 95,000 plus people. Men, women, just about every country, and I want you to pay attention to these numbers. 78% constantly revisit their experience. 81% feel a loss of personal power. 80% are hypervigilant. 94% deal with painful triggers. You've ever had a trigger? They're brutal.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the most common physical symptoms 71% have low energy. 68% have sleep issues. 63% have extreme fatigue. So you sleep all night. You wake up, you're exhausted. That's how you know your adrenals of 10. 47% have weight changes. So in the beginning you can't hold food down. Later on, you're using food for comfort, you're emotionally eating. 95% have a digestive issue and this is out of 95,000 plus people. That could be Crohn's, ibs, diverticular Litis B, anything you name it.
Speaker 2:The most common mental symptoms 78% are overwhelmed. 70% are walking around in a state of disbelief. 62% can't concentrate. Let's just stop there. You can't concentrate. You've a gut issue. You're exhausted. You still have to work. You still have to feed your kids right? That's not even emotionally. 88% experience extreme sadness. 83% are very angry, and you can bounce back and forth between those two emotions all day long. 82% are hurt. 79% are stressed. Just a few more. Here's why I wrote the book Trust Again. 84% have an inability to trust. That would just kill me. 67% prevent themselves from forming deep relationships because they were afraid of being hurt again. 82% find it hard to move forward. 90% want to move forward, but they don't know how.
Speaker 1:Wow, 84% inability to trust again. Okay, let's unpack that. So if time doesn't heal, or all wounds, as we hear right, what does? How do we heal? Or be trailed? Because I'm an entrepreneur, as an entrepreneur, all entrepreneurs, and I think you are as well all entrepreneurs people quit on us. People don't show up, we give, we do, we didn't, and things happen. We experienced this quite a bit Literally having a conversation with one of my employees yesterday. We had a great employee. He just decided in December to Didn't show up, just and made up this holy, labored story about whatever. It just didn't show up. And it was like man, the whole team felt betrayed by this person. What does? What does heal it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, and just to wrap up with the quiz. First of all, you didn't hear me say one thing 20%, 30%, these numbers are super high. Here's the crazy part they're not necessarily from a recent betrayal. So think about this this could be the parent who did something awful when you were a kid. This could be the boyfriend or girlfriend who broke your heart in high school. So think about this. That person may not know care, remember, they may not even be alive. And here we are walking out Years of that, decades later, with symptoms from something left unhealed from years ago. The good news is, you could heal from all of it. That was the third discovery and I'm happy to talk about yeah, please do.
Speaker 1:That's my question how? If time doesn't heal it, then what does? How do we heal it?
Speaker 2:yet when this discovery showed up, this was for me, the most exciting out of all three. And what was discovered was, while we can stay stuck for years, decades of lifetime and so many people stay stuck if we're going to fully heal and by fully heal I mean those symptoms of post betrayal syndrome, like I just shared to this completely rebuilt place called post betrayal transformation. That was the first discovery, happy to share that, after we're gonna do five Proven, predictable stages, and what's even more exciting about that is we know what happens physically, mentally and emotionally at each stage and we know what we need to do from ones to get from one stage to the next. Healing is entirely predictable and I could share the stages please do so it's all we do within the PBT Institute.
Speaker 2:It's what all of our coaches are certified in. I'm gonna give you a boiled down version of it. So stage one this is before it happens. And if you can imagine four legs of a table, the four legs being physical, mental, emotional and spiritual what I saw with everybody me too was this heavy lean on the physical and the mental thinking and doing and kind of Neglecting or ignoring the emotional and the spiritual feeling of being. And so think about it. If a table only has two legs, it's easy for that table to top a low. That's us.
Speaker 2:Stage two shock, trauma, d-day, discovery day. This is the scariest of all of the stages. This is like the day that your employee told you that were, just they didn't show up. This is got the news. This is like when someone it's like they take a mask and reveal who they've been Happens is this is the breakdown of the body, the mind and the worldview.
Speaker 2:Right here You've ignited the stress response. You're now headed for every single stress related symptom, illness, condition, disease. Your mind is in a complete state of chaos and overwhelm. You cannot wrap your mind around what you just learned. This makes no sense and your worldview has just been shattered. Your worldview is your mental model, the rules that govern you, that Prevent chaos. Trust this person. These are the rules. This is how life works.
Speaker 2:Don't go there, you know, and in one earth's shattering moment or series of moments, every rule You've been holding to be real and true is no longer. The bottom has bottomed out on you and a new bottom hasn't formed yet. This terrifying, but think about it. If the bottom were to bottom out on you, what would you do? You'd grab hold of anything or any one in order to stay safe and stay alive. And that stage three Survival instincts emerge. This is the most practical out of all of the stages. If you can't help me get out of my way, how do I survive this? Where do I go? Who can I trust? Right, here's the trap, though. Stage three, by far hands down, is the most common place we get stuck and I would say probably 80% of people you know who've been betrayed are stuck in this stage the survival mode, right, but the who can I?
Speaker 1:who can help me? What can I? Who can I trust?
Speaker 2:Exactly. And here's the thing once, because it feels so much better, once we figured out how to survive our experience, because it feels so much better than the shock and trauma of where we just came from, we think it's good. And because we don't know there's anywhere else to go we don't know about stage four, stage five, transformation doesn't even begin until stage four but because we don't know there's anywhere else to go, we part our care, we plant roots here. We're not supposed to, but we don't know that and four things happen. The first thing is we start getting all those small self-benefits. We get our story, we love our story. We get someone to blame. We get a target for our anger right. We get sympathy from everyone we share our story with and on some level, we're not getting much else. So we're like this feels good. And and again, because we don't know there's anywhere else to go, we stay here longer than we should. Now, because we're here longer than we should be, the mind starts doing things like you know, maybe you're not that great, maybe you deserved it, maybe you're not that great of a boss, right? Whatever, maybe this, maybe that Plant deeper roots. And now, because these are the thoughts we're thinking this is the energy we start putting out. Like energy attracts, like energy. Right, so now we start attracting people and circumstances and Relationships to confirm, yep, this is where you belong. Right here is. Where is it? Does it sound like you could see where? Okay, right here is where you'll join that lame support group and you will actually sabotage your healing because you found your people. Right here you're healing. You will sabotage your healing because you're afraid to outgrow your betrayer. Here's typically where people go to therapy and counseling too. We have so many people coming into the PBT Institute with therapy truck.
Speaker 2:If anything glues you to stage three, it's continuously Unpacking your story. You're unpacking it. You're unpacking it. You're unpacking it. You're sharing, but if you notice, that's all you're doing. Stay Fried, that's all you're doing. You feel heard, but you're not even inching closer to stage four because it feels so bad but we don't know there's anywhere else to go. We're miserable, right.
Speaker 2:So right here we start using food, drugs, alcohol, work, tv, keeping busy, anything to numb, avoid and distract ourselves from this painful place. So think about it. We do it for a day, a week, a month. Now it's a habit. A year, 10 years, 20 years and I can see someone 20 years later and say that drinking you're doing that. Emotional eating you're doing whatever. Do you think that has anything to do with your betrayal? And they would look at me like I'm crazy. They would say it happened 20 years ago. All they did was put themselves in stage three and stay there.
Speaker 2:And once that becomes your identity, it's hard to leave it, especially now that you've made a life around it and now you have your people and now all you're doing is medicating and suppressing all those symptoms that keep showing up. It's quicksand. It's a lot of people are doing. If you're willing willingness is the big word right here willing to let go of the story, the small self-benefit grieve, mourn, the loss, a bunch of things you need to do you move to stage four. Stage four is finding and adjusting to a new normal. So here's where you acknowledge I can't undo what happened, but I control what I do with it. You're not healing just yet, but at least you stopped the massive damage you'd been picking up in stages two.
Speaker 1:What if the response to that question is to stage three? Right, I can't control what happened to me, but I am willing to let go, and the answer to that is to get resourceful and figure out how to fix the problem. Right, which is kind of part of stage three. What if? What happened then?
Speaker 2:So stage three is very action-oriented, but it's very action-oriented around the problem. Stage four is very action-oriented, but it's very action-oriented around the solution.
Speaker 1:Okay, got it. Got it Very different. Yes, yes.
Speaker 2:So, instead of that, that like looking back at all the things you know learning about you look at it, receipts and trying to figure it out and you know tapping, you know all things you could do. Now we're looking forward. How do I heal? Stage four feels like if you've ever moved, if you've ever moved to a new house, office, condo, apartment, like all your stuff's not there, it's not quite cozy up here. You're like we can do this, we got this right, Feels like that.
Speaker 2:But think about it If you were to move, you don't take everything with you. You don't take the things that don't represent the version of you. You want to be in this new space and what I found was if your friends weren't there for you, you've outgrown them right here. That lane support group you're done. That betrayer who's not changing. You're done. That therapy that's keeping you stuck, you're done. And so people say to me all the time touch, I've had these friends 10, 20, 30 years. Is it me? Yes, it is. You're undergoing a transformation and if they don't rise, they don't right. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Like, a lot of times feels right too.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So once you settle into this new mental space, you make it cozy, make it mentally home. You move into the fifth, most beautiful stage, and this is healing, rebirth and a new worldview. The body starts to heal Self love, self care, eating well, exercise. We didn't have the bandwidth for that earlier. Now we do. We're making new rules, new boundaries based on the road we just traveled and we've been new worldview based on everything we see so clearly now and the four legs of the table. It was all about the physical and the mental. By this point we're solidly grounded because we're focused on the emotional and the spiritual too. Those are the five stages.
Speaker 1:So my question to you is where does wisdom come in in the future? Right, because I believe that wisdom is a man or a woman that learns from their histories, their mistakes and their right, and our brain tends to learn to pattern, recognize and say, okay, danger, if I walk down that way, there's a dog in that house that it's a big dog. In the stage, like we have in our neighborhood here, there's a dog that's just a big dog, and they leave the door. We're like, okay, we don't walk down that street when we're walking the middle of the day because you know that dog could get out. So where's the line of for an adult, for a human being, to identify patterns and not dwell in the past and stay there and not be fearful of now, new commitment? So you experience a betrayal in a marriage. So how did that change for you in the future Not to bring that into new relationships? How does it help me not to bring new hires and bring that baggage of what this assistant did to us right Into the next relationship?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a great question. And here's the thing repeat betrayals are a clear sign of an unhealed betrayal. The faces change, but it's the same thing. You know. You go from friend to friend, boss to boss, partner to partner. You're like what the heck is it me?
Speaker 2:Yes, it is Not in that it's your fault, in that it's your opportunity. There's a huge lesson needing to be learned. Until and unless you get that, you're going to have opportunities in the form looking like people to teach you. So, like in my scenario, I had that betrayal from my family. I thought I did everything I needed to do to heal from that and then it happened again. This time it was my husband.
Speaker 2:So think about what I did for me to enroll in a PhD program. I mean, first of all, I was 50 years old. I hadn't studied like that in 30 something years. I didn't know I was going to pay for it. It was. I had never done anything for myself like that.
Speaker 2:Right Lesson learned changed my whole life and because of it it changed the course of everything. And what happens with people is they. Unless and until there are these significant changes that happen, the lesson isn't learned. So we keep having to experience the pain of it until we get the mother of all betrayals and we learn. In my scenario it was. It's like, you know, on some level I guess it wasn't bad enough with my family, but with my husband that was the worst.
Speaker 2:And just to close the loop on my story, Rebuilding is always a choice. Whether you rebuild yourself and move on and that's what I did with my family, it wasn't an option to rebuild with them or hit the situation Lends itself. If you're willing, if you want to, you rebuild something from the ground up. New with the person who hurt you and that's what I did with my husband so not long ago is to Totally transform people. We married each other again new rings, new baths, new dress and a four kids is a bridal party. You know, betrayal will show you who someone is. It also has the opportunity to wake them up To who they temporarily became, become, became, but so many people are so afraid of the death and destruction of the old. That's the only way you birth the new, whether it's a new you or a new opportunity for a, you know, new 2.0 couple that's a great story, really good, really good, really great story.
Speaker 1:Um, how do we, let's say someone we have a listener, debbie, right listening to us and is thinking and saying Well, yeah, I haven't been able to heal from this thing that happened to me XYZ years ago. You're sharing and it's resonating with people, but you said something really important if you don't learn to lesson I'm a big believer in this as well If you don't learn to lesson, it tends to keep repeating. That the story can't tends to keep repeating itself. As I look back of my 46 years of life and I look at the things that I have, the mistakes I've made and the things that have happened in my life and the things that Consistently keep happening or have happened, is because I don't take the time personally to sit and reflect and think when are my lessons and what am I supposed to learn from this?
Speaker 1:What advice are you giving to someone that's listening to us right now and does not know how to do that Right? How? What strategy can people utilize? What can we give people? What exercise can the person do to sit and reflect and look at the lessons? Sometimes this shit is not that easy to do, right, when you're in that pain and you're in that betrayal, that is, that is, as human beings that both, all of us listening here, as human being, experiencing this human experience, I know not easy but necessary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the first thing is know what stage you're in and and by going through the stages, it's probably clear that you're either in stage two, stage three most people are you know. So then you want to say and this is where people usually get angry, because they realize I made us, I've been in stage three for you know, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years. And here's it. You said anger to motivate you, to propel you to the next stage. It's okay that you've been there, you didn't know. But you, what you want to do is take all of your energy, all of your Incentive, all the motivation you can to move to the next stage, because people always say, like they take all their energy. Well, should I reconcile, should I rebuild with that person this and that? And I always tell them Any decision you make from stage three will be a stage three decision. The people you date, what you do, all of it. So the best thing you could do is get to stage four and even at stage four, you're gonna be dating stage four people making stage four decisions. You want to get to stage five because that's when You're making decisions from a straight place of strength and clarity, versus fear and scarcity, like what we see in the PBT Institute anybody who's in stage five. We will see new levels of health. We will see new Businesses, passion projects, new relationships, either with the person who hurt them is in a very different way, or someone entirely new. That's when that stuff shows up.
Speaker 2:You can't do those things from stage three because you're just too too enmeshed in Either your trauma or the life you created because of your trauma. So you want to recognize where you are and say what would take me, even if I inch you know one degree closer to stage four. Am I willing to let go of my story? Am I willing to let go of the beliefs that it can't get better than this? Am I willing to just take the energy to my healing so I take it off just dealing with symptoms all the time? Because anything you do is only taking you one of two ways further or closer Everything you want. So if you make it a decision to intentionally and deliberately ask yourself this thought is it taking me further, closer to what I want? This decision, this food choice, doesn't matter. Is it taking me further or closer to what I want?
Speaker 1:it's a way out of that Stuck stage how can the betrayal of a trust of trust impact the person sense of self-worth and their ability to form healthy relationships going forward in the future?
Speaker 2:to great question. That was actually part of the first discovery. The first discovery was that the trails a different type of trauma. I had been through death of a loved one, I'd actually been through disease and I was like betrayal feels different for me. I didn't want to assume it was the same for everybody else. I asked him if you've been through other traumas besides betrayal, does it feel different? And unanimously they said it's so different.
Speaker 2:Here's why, because it feels so intentional, we take it so personally Rejection, abandonment, belonging, confidence, worthiness, trust shattered. So the whole self has to be rebuilt. You know, if you lose someone, you love your grief, your sad, you more than lost. Life will never be the same. But you don't question the relationship, you don't question your ability to trust, you don't question your sanity With betrayal, you do. So trust is one of those things that needs to be rebuilt because if you don't, it's gonna show up in your health, in your work, in your relationships, like, for example, in relationships. Gonna show up those two ways.
Speaker 2:The first repeat betrayal, like we talked about. The second is we put the big wall up like nope in there. Done that, no one's getting close to me again and we think it's coming from a place of strength like you could be in a perfect position to do that right now, where you like. You know what. I have, my, my team now I'm good not taking that chance and you would think it's coming from a place of strength and it's not. It's coming from fear. You were so Like your, your you're so shocked by that experience. You'd rather just keep everybody at a distance than risk that level of vulnerability and having that happen again. Right, we see it at work too. It's like you know. Let's say, you deserve that raise, your promotion, but your confidence was shattered. So you don't have the confidence to ask. Or you know you want to trust that boss, that co-worker, that partner, but the person you trusted the most Proved untrustworthy. How do you trust the boss?
Speaker 1:a co-worker, collaborative partner shows up everywhere so how can individuals navigate on deciding whether or not to reconcile with someone who's betrayed them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know it's. It's one of those things where you're healing. And this is where a lot of couples counselors we see it all the time they come into the pbt is to do people like with this cat. You know, therapy, trauma, counseling, trauma when the only intention is just to get you both together. We don't do it that way. We actually have a program for the betrayer and we have a program for the betrayed, and the whole intention is you get each of them to their highest and best, because that's when they look at each other so differently maybe they've outgrown each other than they shouldn't be together again, you see. But if they both heal and then come at it from this place of renewed Clarity and love and they see each other for who they are, and it's a whole different thing. It's, it's very different. You know, forgiveness has so much to do with you. You really take you releasing the, the power, all that pain has over you when it comes to rebuilding something entirely new with the person who are you. That has a lot to do with them, because if they're not changing, what in the world, why would you take that on again? And I'll tell you, there were three groups in the study who did not heal one.
Speaker 2:This was the group. They had their story, they were sticking with it. They were like deep in stage three. That was it. The second this was the group that was numbing, avoiding, distracting. They ran to the doctor, put them on a mood stabilizer or anti anxiety medication May have made the day, but easy to get to, not without a price. But the third group this was the group where the betrayer had very little consequences. So whether it was out of financial fear, religious reasons was a big one, just fear in general. They just tried to. You know, look the other way, turn the other cheek.
Speaker 2:I saw two things with this group. Number one a further deterioration of the relationship. And number two this group was the most physically sick. Broken heart can't handle that. But people are so afraid Of, like I said before, the death and destruction of the old. That is the only way you birth something new. It's like it. Let's say there's a Lego. You know my kids you still love. Let's say they, there's this Lego structure sitting in the corner of the room and it just gets shattered right. The whole idea after betrayal is you don't build it back the same way. You look at it and you're like you know what? I don't use that piece. I want to build it that way. What do I want?
Speaker 1:you take all the parts you love when you're rebuilding yourself and you leave behind everything that no longer serves a moment ago you said maybe you are grown to be true and you can make the decision whether you want to go back to that or not. Tell us how should one Discerned on making that decision whether? You mentioned no consequences, you mentioned a few different things. How does one discern whether you go back to that relationship and give us for both personal and business, because a lot of our listeners are business people. So maybe there was a business thing of business relationship that one sour and maybe personal relationship that one sour.
Speaker 2:It's such a great question and this is gonna be the most frustrating answer. That holds true, and I have been coaching for thirty two years and I can tell you I don't see it happening any other way but this you, instead of your energy being focused on, do I reconcile, do I rebuild? Is this person worth it? It does all that energy. You harness that energy. You use it to get yourself to stage five, because you will see things so clearly when you're deciding. When you're in stage two or three, you can't make that decision Because he will only be coming from a stage three place. So when you get to stage five or even four, you see it clearly and here's what you hear. I'll show you something with my hands. You'll never forget this.
Speaker 2:So here's what happens after the trail, right where we're here, where betray, we're so heartbroken, we're so much pain. We just want the pain to go away. So we just go back and we live a lifetime Going back and forth, and this is what most people do, right? What we recommend is don't do that. You have an opportunity after betrayal. Do everything you can To move to stage three, four, five years. I think if all your intention is is to be with this person. You will sabotage yourself because this feels bad, right, but you like it up here. So then you say but why don't they do this? They're not ready. You see what I mean. But then you know eventually, because you like it up here, you get this you like.
Speaker 1:Hmm, that looks painful.
Speaker 2:Just just that visual look painful here's what you do on your own. You do this and then they may say I better step up my game to meet the strength of this person. They do this. You have a whole different relationship up here. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I think you answered my next question, which is what are some of the common mistakes individuals make during the healing process and how can that be avoided?
Speaker 2:They make their decisions out of fear. They make their decisions out of scarcity. They they believe that it was about them and they weren't enough. So they spend their energy on how do I? How can I just be okay with this? Or what do I need to? Who do I need to become? Do I need to become A wealthier, thinner, prettier? What can I do to be enough for that person?
Speaker 2:Those are all the wrong questions, all the wrong questions. The questions are what do, what can I learn from this? What? What did I not see About myself? What? What message can I learn? What would be the reason, what would be the reason why this would come my way? What's the profound lesson to be learned here? Because I'll tell you, betrayal is one of the most painful of the human experiences. When you move through it, you're a warrior. I mean it's, it's people I see in stage five. They are so radically different than who they were in stages two, in stage three. So the whole, you know really the whole lesson is what can you learn about you to be the boldest, strongest, what most confident, wisest version of you? Those are questions that you want to ask.
Speaker 1:That's. That's really, really powerful. Got two Final questions for you, my dear. So how can individuals rebuild trust in themselves after experiencing a betrayal?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I wrote trust again for exactly that reason. And here's the thing trust gets shattered and then we don't trust the person we we trusted the most, and we don't trust ourselves because we're like, how do you like you with your Employee, right? Like how did you not see, how do you not know, how did you not see that coming right? And then we so then we take it a step further and we say, if I don't, if I, if I don't trust the person I trusted the most and I can't even trust myself, well, how can I trust in anything, in any one?
Speaker 2:So trust has to be rebuilt from the ground up. We have to build a foundation, the basic Foundation that trust can be built on. Then we have to rebuild trust in that, in our, our wise inner guide, in our gut and their intuition, which we turn down, and I can explain how to do that. Then we have to build self-trust Again, because we don't trust ourselves. We have to build that trust in ourselves to show we are trustworthy. If we say something, we mean it. Our word is law, and Only from that place, when, once that's been rebuilt, can we carefully Learn to trust in others again. But the big mistake people make is they don't rebuild those other three levels and they just earn so much pain they want to trust again and there's no foundation that it's resting.
Speaker 1:Can you, can you, share some concrete tools or exercises listeners can use at home to manage difficult emotions associated with the trails?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know there are. There are so many, so many Tools and the first thing is it really depends on what stage you're in. If you're in stage two shock, trauma, you know D-day, discovery day you need to regulate your nervous system. Your nervous system is so dysregulated You're like barely breathing. You know your, your, your mind is kind of offline, it's so hard to function. Yep, brain fog, you have all those things. So when you're in that shock and trauma of stage two nervous system, regulation is key. You know you're in steep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean, there are so many things you could do. You could do just even breathing exercises, meditate, meditation, journaling, tapping, eft. You know there there are so many different things that resonate with different people. You know we have we have coaches for every different stage and everything that Someone could possibly experience within the PBT Institute. And whenever someone comes in in stage two because everything's a number According to like what stage you're in that we put them through this stage two track or stage three track and, like I, I send stage two people to our stage two coach because she one of the best things she does with them is breathing exercises and meditations and things that they could just simply do to get that Nervous system back online because it's you can't.
Speaker 2:It's almost like that's the foundation. You can't build more healing if, if you're not, even if your nervous system is completely dysregulated. Now, if you're in stage three and if you realize you've been in stage three for a long time, you have to take a look at and this is gonna sound like a crazy question, but you know what benefit do you get staying in stage three?
Speaker 1:People. That's a powerful question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they're getting something from it. You get to stay stuck, so you know you don't have to show up in Me, differently, what do you get to?
Speaker 1:What do you see most people get when you know you? You got 95,000 surveys on your website. What do you see most people? How do most people when they start working with you guys? How do they answer that question?
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know there's there's so much. Well, there's a lack of trust. I mean, I work with the most untrusting niche, you know, which is okay. So they don't. You know they don't trust us until until they do. But but they, some of them, are very Angry, and I get it, you know it's like. And then when they learn that there are five stages and they've been hanging out in stage three for you know, 20 years, there's a lot of anger there. But what I try to reframe it and let them know hey, you know, you didn't know, it's not your fault, but now you know you don't have to spend another 20 years like this.
Speaker 2:So what do you do? What do you do with it? Just because it's your Story, it doesn't have to be your life story. It could be a pivotal chapter of your next story. Like I didn't do anything they couldn't do, I just stayed. Stage three stinks like, yeah, you have your story and you get sympathy. Look at me. Everybody I trusted in the most Betrayed me right and that could have been a really powerful story and you could have been Sympathize, you could have given me sympathy, but instead this story I have. Now, right, we're up at thousands of people because of a different story, right? So it's, you have to be willing to let go of that story two final questions.
Speaker 1:What message of hope and encouragement would you like to send to the listener, someone who's currently struggling with the pain of betrayal?
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, first of all, I would say I know the pain. I've been there. It's a pain like no other and Even though and I would say this a million times if you have to even though it happened to you, it's not about you use your crisis as a launchpad to trust transformation, and that's trauma well-served.
Speaker 1:That's a great message, really good message. And final question is what didn't? What having to share with the listeners yet? That would bring a tremendous amount of value around this topic of betrayal and healing that you yet haven't shared, or any questions that I haven't asked you. That would bring Tremendous amount of value to the listener.
Speaker 2:I would say, having this new marriage and we have four kids in two additions, we are having so much fun. We are having so much fun. It's based on new levels of respect, new levels of love, new everything, and it's fun and and All of us, it's like we realize how much time we lost and it's we're just we're making up for so much lost time and not missing a moment, and that's the beauty, that's what's possible.
Speaker 1:It's amazing, I love it. I love it. Great message, great message. Doc, if people wanted to connect with you and your firm and, and they wanted to, they're like hey, this really resonates with me. Maybe they want to get your book. How do they connect with you? Where do they find you? How do they take that survey? How you know you have something, you have some free resources. What do they find you? How do they connect with you? What do they get your content? How do they Just just engage with you?
Speaker 2:We have tons of stuff. Everything is at the PBT Institute. A PBT is in post-betrayal transformation. The PBT Institute calm.
Speaker 1:The PBT Institute, calm. Thank you for doing what you're doing. It is absolutely Necessary to have people like you and the. I find myself I'm having so much fun Right now with my podcast. I'm having so much fun because we are we're bringing people like yourself that are bringing so much of value to the world, changing the world like, literally like and I find myself saying this in almost every episode. Thank you for doing what you're doing, because what you're doing is really healing helping people heal and and I can relate to being in that state you said a moment ago of your nervous system not regulated because of a big year. I know what that's like and the fact that you're actually, that someone could be listening to this podcast right now and Could be experiencing that, and you gave them strategies and you gave them skills and you have a platform when they can reach out and get help and ask for help. It's amazing your God sent. Thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you for doing like you think of people like me a voice, so I'm so grateful.
Speaker 1:Thank you, my dear Thank you, and guys, make sure you, you know, if you know someone that's that's Experiencing any of these issues, make sure they go to the PBT. Pbt Institute, calm. Do I say that right? The PBT Institute calm. Thank you, doctors, that Debbie really appreciate you.